[OLDCATH-L] Remarks on Celibacy Requirement

[Andre Queen, Sr]

Umm...

That book, as the premise explains itself, can only be taken seriously if one discounts a proper understanding of Church doctrine, theology and disciplines. There is some very juvenile twisting of well-understood theological terms here - really an embarassment if these gentlemen have the credentials they say they do.

 


Yours in Christ the King, 

Most Rev. Andre J. W. Queen, SCR 
Archbishop, Province of the United States
Catholic Apostolic National Church 
www.catholic-canc.us 

Abp Andre Queen

Create Your Badge





________________________________
From: Sam'l B <samlb at samlb.ws>
To: Old Catholic Discussion List <oldcath-l at stsams.org>; old_catholic at yahoogroups.com; Old_Roman_Catholic <Old_Roman_Catholic at yahoogroups.com>; Old Catholic Unity <oldcatholicunity at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 8:54:16 PM
Subject: [OLDCATH-L] Remarks on Celibacy Requirement

On 02/12/2010 04:45 PM, Bill Leaming wrote:
> Have you actually read Mr. Davie's book Sam, or are you simply leaping
> to a conclusion without any basis in fact?

    I read the article +Marty posted -- I stand by my comment.

> http://www.illicitcelibacy.com/Infallibility.html

    Read enough of this to see it is horse-puckey, too -- Rome has never pretended that celibacy is a dogmatic issue, subject to infallibility.  It is a purely disciplinary issue, which could be changed by a Papal Motu Proprio at any time.

    The argument that Roman authority can be destroyed by this or that trifling grudge on the part of a polemicist is, again, 16th or 17th Century Protestant poppycock.

> He does pose some very interesting questions...

    Which?  Not the one below, for sure.

> "...celibacy is required only for Latin Rite (Roman) priests but has no
> effect on other Catholic priests under authority of Rome, such as
> Marionites, who have been allowed to marry since the time of Christ,

    Utterly untrue, as you might gather from talking to real, contemporary Byzantine Catholic priests in the U.S. -- who are NOT allowed to marry by fiat of the Roman Rite National Council of Bishops. To be married, they need to be transferred to Europe, get married, then transfer back to the U.S -- something much frowned on by the Roman Congregation for the clergy.

> and
> married Anglican priests who converted, becoming Catholic priests while
> retaining their wives and children.

    In the case of Anglican clergy who have swum the Tiber, Rome has been very explicit that none of the married ones will ever  become Bishops, and Anglican bishops who swim with their wives and kiddies are being received as _PRIESTS_ (and re-ordained).

    Further --  Orthodox _BISHOPS_ are, and have been, at least since the 4th Century, required to be celibate.  Orthodox priests must have been married _BEFORE_ ordination to the Diaconate, and I suspect, cannot marry again if their wife dies.

> Only Roman priests are forced to
> reject either the Sacrament of Matrimony or the Sacrament of Orders -
> Jesus infallibly allowed both."

    Where?   Chapter & Verse, please.

===============================================

    Understand, now, that I do not agree that celibacy is a necessary condition for the priesthood and the episcopacy.  Our Protestant brethren have shown, over the last 400 years or so, that  optional celibacy can be made to work quite successfully.

    I have speculated before, both LOUDLY and PUBLICLY that the probable reason for contemporary Roman resistance to the relaxation of the celibacy requirement is likely _FINANCIAL_ -- they would have to pay their clergy a living wage, and provide benefits for the wife and kiddies.  Ask your local local Roman how much his monthly stipend is!

    I stand by my prediction that it will be 25-50 years until Rome seriously takes up the question of clerical celibacy.  I also continue to LOUDLY reject Piffle, Poppycock, and Snotty-Protty arguments.

+Sam'l

_______________________________________________
Oldcath-l mailing list
Oldcath-l at stsams.org
http://mail.stsams.org/mailman/listinfo/oldcath-l_stsams.org